Society for the Preservation of My Sanity

There is a scripture that says, "Work out your own salvation, with much fear and trmebling." Another I like is, "Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate." This does not mean that I start another church, but it lets me embrace all the others, where they are, as Christ does. Now I can even love everybody, where before I thought everybody had to believe like me. The Kingdom of God is within each of us, who are his children wheather we know it or not. Just pray to Jesus and grow in His love. and, "As often as you have done it unto the least of these, you have done it unto me." That is what Jesus said, and so we love and share and BE NICE!

There is a scripture that says, "Work out your own salvation, with much fear and trmebling." Another I like is, "Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate." This does not mean that I start another church, but it lets me embrace all the others, where they are, as Christ does. Now I can even love everybody, where before I thought everybody had to believe like me. The Kingdom of God is within each of us, who are his children wheather we know it or not. Just pray to Jesus and grow in His love. and, "As often as you have done it unto the least of these, you have done it unto me." That is what Jesus said, and so we love and share and BE NICE!

What a coinky dink. I've been pondering the church thing lately too. I haven't attended church in about 5 years now because I thought it so hypocritical, and I agree with you on Sunday school for kids just being candy time!

I would love to dish about this too, but it's not easy in these little comment boxes!

Thank you, Oscar!!! You have given me several wonderful verses to begin my search/study with!! :)

Sincerely... I thank you muchly my dear friend.

Blessings!

heh.. well Abbadabba... I knew you would be a prime candidate with which to hash out this thing! :)

So... um, about the little comment boxes? You do realize that they'll hold as much as you can type, right?

Otherwise, well, I just don't quite know how else to go about doing this discussion thing.

You got any ideas?

I did think about giving posting permission to anyone who wanted to get into the discussion so they could put posts here. But I'm not sure about that....

I'll have to think more on it... it might work, tho... what do you think?

If you have any other ideas... PLEASE let me know!

~hugs~

Church really is for the believer. To come and to worship the Lord. It isn't about sitting in a pew and walking away feeling like "what a great sermon, I got a lot out of it." Now, before anyone yells at me let me say that if you, yourself, happen to walk away with something then that is great...it's a bonus, a by-product. It truly is not what YOU get but what YOU GIVE...to whom? To God. God is our audience on Sunday and we are giving to Him. How? By our singing, by our prayers etc. Now, does that mean unbelievers can't come? No. They are welcome. Do we need to "dummy" down the sermon? No. The Holy Spirit meets them right where they are and they will understand what they need to. Do we need to reach out to them? By all means.

I do think we (and by that I mean Americans) have become so accustomed (even the Christians) on "what's in it for me?" thinking. Well, ahem...ummm, that's my humble opinion.

Please keep it coming!!! And Claire?!? Type all you want!!

About the reaching out to the lost? Yes, by all means, like you say...

I think the big problem comes when the church services ARE so "dumbed down" that they carry no power... so people just come whenever and wouldn't know a spiritual movement if it picked 'em up by the hair.. b/c it's never happened and they're so used to just being there... to just feeling like they (as non-believers [but 'good people']) have every right to be there... but they feel no compunction to 'give themselves to Christ. No need to make a commitment to live a Christian life. They feel they're "okay" b/c that's all they're really ever heard from the pulpit.

*sigh* This is where I feel the church has become a crutch.. almost a liability to our society, kwim?

Okay... whaddaya gotta say to that? ;)

In love----

me

LOL All my kids remember about Sunday School was the snacks. When they were older, they remembered being snubbed. And our church was a great church. Very family friendly, lots of homeschoolers, TRUE worship. I miss the good parts sometimes. I don't miss the bad. Some of the things we experienced were shocking, considering the company we were in. I guess I was naive in that respect. I just expected more.

But as far as church...I honestly feel that the modern day church is failing in its mission. The way most churches function only continues to futher fragment the families in our already overly fragmented society. Churches assume the role of spiritual leadership allowing the parents to give up responsibility for spiritually encouraging their children. I know that God is the One who works in our children but it's the parent's job to lead the children to Christ, not the church's. And don't even get me started on youth groups. Families are the foundation of our society. We need our churches to support the family. That's not being done in most cases.

I find another problem in that church goers often feel their 'duty' is done when they go to church each Sunday. They get dressed, put on their Sunday face, and off to church they go where they smile and shake hands but then they leave forgetting that Jesus goes with them when they leave. That He is there for fellowship at all times, He wants our worship all the time, not just on Sunday.

And the hypocrites...Ask any waitress who works the Sunday church crowd and you will hear awful tales about rude un-Christlike behavior by those very same people who give the Lord lip-service from the pews.

I know that's more of a commentary on Christians than churches but I believe the church is responsible for perpetuating this behavior. Luke-warm sermons, no true repentance, no true worship. We need preachers in the pulpit who are on fire for the Lord, who are ready to preach the Word, not pat the congregation on the back.

Eh...I really think of the 'church' as people not as buildings anyway. And as much as I have to dislike about our church systems, I still miss it. I miss corporate worship, praising God with one voice. The community, the fellowship. I miss it.

Wow, this is a big subject for me. I've written a lot on this suject, lots of research, etc. It's a huge problem.

I agree with you that finding a good church is often extremely difficult. But I might have a slightly different take on it than most.

What makes a church isn't the quality of people's lives. It's the presence of the Word in its purity. If the Word is pure, then people's lives can be corrected. But if the people's lives are of absolute Pharasaic purity, and the Word is corrupted, then it isn't a church at all, but a mutual self-help session. That's the problem with Pietism, it emphasizes life over truth. So people have all sorts of doctrinal differences, but they find common ground in their purity? That's not Biblical.

Oops, I hit the send button before I was done!

My advice is to find a church where the Word is taught clearly and in its purity. If they're wishy-washy in what they believe, but talk a lot about purity of life, then that should be a huge warning flag.

Oh, by the way, we're all hypocrites, technically speaking. That's why Christ came to save us -- we'll never meet the infinite demands of the Law by our own power. Only He could do that, on our behalf. Thanks be to God that, despite my sin, I am forgiven through the merits of Jesus Christ.

Hey there. It is Steve Sporre from "Following God's Will" and my book blog "Into The Mirror" I am really REALLY not trying to spam ya but I thought I would let all of my blog friends know that my full length 11 song album is finally here!! I am really excited about it and want to thank all of you for your prayers. Get More info at my Blog... again I am sorry for the "Spam" but many of my Blogger friends asked me to tell them when it was completed!!

And PLEASE help me spread the word and the music!!

So many people 'judge' a church on how friendly people are, or how interesting the pastor was, did the message hold their attention...yada, yada, yada. As important as these things are, ultimately the sermon must be a matter of doctrine.

I heard something one time...can't remember who said it, "Every sermon is stretched like a bow string between the text of the Bible on the one hand and the problems of contemporary human life on the other. If the string is insecurely tethered to either end, the bow is useless." Even the most interesting sermon, if it lacks a basis in foundational truth, is nothing more than an exercise in tickling ears.

So, what, after all, is the church? It is "th pillar and support of the truth" (1 Tim 3:15 NASB). Look at the surprising order in this verse. It is the church (that's us) that is described as the pillar and support and not the other way around. The church supports the truth. This means that the church has an obligation to the truth.

Ultimately, worship is a theological exercise. This is implied in the of Colossians 3:16 to "let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdome, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God." I find it interesting that Paul did not comment worship for how it makes believers feel towards God but for what it teaches about Him. Worship should convey theological content. I find that significant in view of so many churche's tendency to view worship as synonymous with music.

So far, what I've found in the NT is the description of congregational life in Acts 2:42 which paints a picture in broad strokes and mentions only four things: teaching, fellowship, the breaking of bread (possibly a reference to communion), and prayer.

Paul's categories of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs in Colossians 3:16 (also found in Eph 5:19) indicate that congregational worship in the NT era employed a variety of forms. His chief concern, however, was not with the particular form or certain style but with the content of worship. Worship was to express "the Word of Christ." Contrast this with the practice of the church today, which tends to gauge its worship almost exclusively on the basis of how it makes the worshiper feel.

One other note, hopefully without coming across as this is my blog! *blush*

The vagueness of the NT on the subject of worship is perhaps intentional because God's purpose spans the ages and incorporates a multitude of cultures. A single style or form could not possibly serve such a vast audience. Yet one of the NT's few statements about this subject makes it clear that God does have a standard by which He judges the church's worship. After an extended discussion about theology and worship, Jesus told the woman of Samaria that the Father was seeking a certain kind of worshiper. "God is spirit," He declared, "and His worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth" (John 4:24). Spirit and truth are the two great poles that define the landscape of worship for the church. Sincerity alone is not enough. Enthusiasm is good but may be misdirected. Faith is essential but must be fixed on the right object. True worship, as Christ defined it, is an exercise of the heart guided by the truth.

What is tsays is far more important than how it sounds. What does it say about God's nature? What does it say about God's purpose? Most important of all, what does it say about Christ?

And a hearty Amen! to everything that Pilot Mon said!

Yoo hoo...G~? Geannie? Where are you, sweetie? We need to get you in on the conversation...after all, it was your idea! ;D

I dropped in looking for my ice tea, extra ice and extra lemons, but you must of been out... I'll pop back in later. But, then, you may be asleep by then....oh well....ta ta!

thanks for the 'reminder' about the hypocrit in us all. I totally agree and see? it's just too easy to forget that or overlook it.

I agree w/you that if the pure Word is being preached, you needn't worry about the people sitting around you.. but that's seldom how it works. If there are people, especially ppl who work in the church, etc. who are obviously having problems etc... or you can see some indecision or unwillingness to deal w/certain situations in the pastor.. well, that makes it a whole 'nother story.

I know EVERY church will have probs, too. Of course. It's hard to explain w/o going into details, but there's just a diff. between having probs that the pastor will give gentle counsel/reproof on and a pastor who just allows things to go on w/o a word, which sets a very bad example for others... whether it's rude behavior or bad language, or inappropriate clothing, gossip, etc. IMHO, the pastor should address these things w/leaders in the church, not just ignore them or wink at them. Gah!

um.. this was started 7/27... finally posted 7/28 10:27pm..

FIL is back in hospital. Seems the gallbladder is the problem this time. Wow. Looks like he's going for a record here. Headed for 3 surgeries in 2 weeks, folks!

No details yet as for time/date, but he's doing okay... no pain and NO PLAVIX! ;) Last he had was 7/27am, so he should be good for a surgery. PTL!

I just spent the ENTIRE day in observation w/him and MIL. I'm wiped OUT!

Hitting the hay...

THANKS FOR ALL THE COMMENTS!!! CARRY ON!! KEEP THE CONVERSATION GOING!

I hope to be able to post something else on this soon.

~Hugs~

G~ it is sad when churches don't carry out proper discipline within the church body. Unless you feel you and Tommy are being led to stay there to make a difference which I guess your not, seeing how you aren't really attending, then IMHO I would pray and begin seeking other churches to visit. Even if you have to drive a short distance, if you find a church that is "right on" and you know the Lord is leading you to fellowship there...then He will provide the gas.

I'm so sorry to hear about your FIL. Hopefully you will get a good night's sleep and feel more rested tomorrow. I'm praying for you and them! :)

I'll drop in for ice tea on a more conducive day for visitin'. :D Love ya, sweetie!

I've always thought that church is the people and that attending "Church" in a building was not a commandment of Jesus or God, but that getting together with fellow Christians to worship God and talk about Jesus was. I don't attend Church, I don't get anything from it. It's always a sermon for salvation and that is good for those who are there and are not saved, but it doesn't feed me or help me to grow in my spiritual walk. At one time I needed that kind of chruch, but today I need more, I need to learn more about God and build my personal relationship with Jesus. I don't seem to find that in a church. Oh I do go now and then, but not regularly. Great thoughts from your visitors and you G~ thanks for sharing. God Bless and ~hugs~

I found your blog off of Darlene's blog.

I loved your post about the church.
I am currently questioning many similar thoughts.

How did the things Jesus taught us to desire become a "bi-product" of church?

Isn't the goal of this whole thing about a relationship with Jesus? What does that have to do with dressing up and smiling at strangers, and NOT meeting with God?
Can't see the connection anymore. Was there ever one?

wow, there was a lot in that post. i understand your frustrations and struggles. i am currently attending a great church, where i am fed and happy. do i agree with EVERYTHING that goes on?

No, but we get along. I don't believe in nursery either. If Sunday school was the only part of church my kids would get i wouldn't agree with it either, but they attend sunday school first, and then attend service with us. They get more out of "big people's" service. But Sunday School definitely has a place, if done right. It has reached countless lives.... But there has to be TEACHING and praying, not just snacks and crafts.

What I love most about my church right now is the unity, the solid Bible teaching/preaching, and the freedom of worship.

I agree with Mrs. Diamond. SS has its place. Since our son attended Christian school he wasn't thrilled with SS. But he loved the sermons! We felt it was our duty to try and show him how he could dig deeper into the SS message even if it was "easy."

Like it's been stated before, there aren't any perfect churches because they are all made up of us sinners.

And, Nancze, you are right, WE, as believers, are the Church...the Bride of Christ.

Great topic, girl! My advice? If you honestly do not feel that Christ is being taught in your church then you need to either lead by example or find a church that is teaching what it should. I know that it is sometimes hard to speak up or when you do pride rears its ugly head and makes it hard for people to listen. I feel that my church teaches the truth - sometimes more than what people want to hear, but that's good. I think that when people are allowed to get too comfortable that's when sin just invades. Anywho, where do you live again? My church is present in every major city just about all over the world. Email me and I can give you more info. Hugs!

I held off on commenting on this because I hadn't updated my blog.

The only scripture I will quote is Hebrews 10:25-Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
There is a strength that you can draw from being with other believers. If I were you G, if you aren't happy where you are going, prayerfully find another one.

I love going to church. It's my chance to worship the Lord with my brothers and sisters, to feel the presence of the Lord, to hear testimonies about how the Lord has worked in everybody's life. When I miss, it's like a hole in my week.

Now I am a Sunday school teacher so I can't let that part pass by. I know what you say is true about some, but not all are that way. I do my best to make sure it's more than snacks. I want to impact thier Christian life. My children know that they can come up to me anytime besides when they are in classes-I am their teacher 24/7 not just on Sunday morning.

Ahhh, dear Sandy... I would never ever want to hurt your feelings.. and hope I haven't.

I did NOT mean that SS Teachers are the whole of the problem... OBVIOUSLY! :)

Just meant that well... historically.. where does SS come from? I understand the original intent of its creation -- to teach basics to the unchurched. I mean, that is MY opinion. Why do YOU (meaning anyone here, not just Sandy :) think SS was created??

Maybe that's what needs discussion here?

What was the original purpose of Sunday School?? Or do you believe that the first churches were more like Sunday Schools?? (I don't -- I think teaching of new believers took place, but on individual/discipleship basis -- not in class/group - and I think new believers were quickly intergrated into "the church" b/c MOST of the body were new believers with elders creating the 'form/skeleton', kwim?)

*sigh* Anyhow... I didn't mean to insult or offend anyone. Truly.

I apologize.

I guess I'm the one that needs to apologize. I'm wasn't offended, and hope I haven't offended anyone.

Too many teachers are like what's been described here-especially in the real young classes. Give them snacks and let them play the whole time. Or they take the class just because the pastor asked and they don't want to say no to him.

I guess one of the best teachers I have seen of little children is at my church-she has trained them to give prayer requests, to gather in a circle and pray, and to have their lesson. For that age group, she does a GREAT job.

I guess I would say the purpose is for children-especially like 10 and under (I teach 8 and 9 year old's)more on their level. That's churched and nonchurched alike. The greek word for such and such goes over their head. Also, we have object lessons, pictures, etc. to help reinforce the lesson for the visual learner-which with all the video stuff now is just about everybody.

When I go on vacation and visit other churches, many times I realize how blessed I am with my church. When I had the trouble with my back this past year, my church was right there for me-praying for me and encouraging me. It's a great blessing that I don't want to take for granted.

G, I really enjoy reading your blog. You have a knack for writing!

Oh no, Sandy. You didn't offend me and I dunno why you'd have done so with anyone else. I just never took thought of any SS teachers hanging around here! Sheesh! Shame on me! ;)

I applaude and SO appreciate those who are doing the duty they've been called to do... teach and train up sincere, somber, serious servants of the Savior. Amen and Amen!!

But as you say... it's the lax teachers, or MORE OFTEN the lax churches who aren't really looking for true teaching/training of Christ but more so numbers and statisics... there is where my stomach falls and my heart sinks and my mind screams NOOOO!

The church, in general mind you, has waxed so very, very cold and it is a frightening place to find yourself. *shudder*

Ah well... at least now we know no one is offended, yes? ha-ha!

I think it is the sign of the times, G. Don't you? Read the descriptions of the churches in Revelation. I pray that we are that much closer to going "Home."

I agree totally, Claire. It's still hard to "take" or see or deal with or... whatever! Ya know?

To me, it's unfathomable that people are the way they are.. so cold, churches so far away from the Word, etc. I know I'm not at all in a position to criticize or critique... but I still have eyes, kwim?

Ah. *huff* I just have a really hard time dealing with it. There's such a tangible sense of melancholy around me these days it borders on bizarre!! *blech!* I just long to go back to when life was simpler.

Guess that means I'm just old, eh? ROFLOL! Well, so be it. I don't care. I just wish the world would slow down and let me take a breath. And I'm not trying to lay blame necessarily... I'm just saying I feel the void left in our lives by such a lack of human interaction... nobody "visits" anymore.

*sigh*

I'm gonna shut up before I get on a nother tangent. That's all I need... another tangent!! ROFLOL!

~Hugs~

The church is the people. If a bunch of people gathered in the park to praise the Lord, there the church would be. When the church building stands empty, the Lord is not there. As soon as one says that they don't attend church because hypocrites hang out there, the speaker has become a hypocrite. Who does he think that he is? The church is for broken people, just like hospitals are for sick people. Matthew 9:12..., They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. One of Billy Graham's daughters says that there is a broken heart in every pew. The most important commandment according to Jesus: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. How can you love them if you think you're too good to hang out with them? There is also a bible verse which says that if all you do is love the easy to love people then you haven't done anything even as heathen do that much.